Bone nut on HD 28V

[bluesjuke]

Having a bone nut put on my HD 28V due to string buzzing at the first fret from being too low.
Neck relief is great where it is & the luthier said he could fill the string slots to raise the string height at the first fret & has had good success with this.
I had planned on replacing the nut sooner or later so I opted for that now.

He told me that the guitar would be a little brighter but not as in having more treble end to it. I asked if he meant as if it had greater presence & he said "exactly".

Wondering what type of experience this was for others that have changed to a bone nut on a similar Martin.

[bluesjuke]

Well I got my Martin back today.
Man what a work of art the new nut is. Perfectly shaped & slotted just right.
As far as a sound difference all I can really notice is it is slightly more focused sounding after listening very carefully.
It was so good before there wasn't really room for improvement.

All open string buzzing when hitting the strings a little harder is gone and the action & feel are extremely comfortable as well- worth the $51..

[RnB]

I had a HD-35, & had the saddle & nut replaced. Only I went w/ FWI. I noticed a better definition, clarity, sustain, & bass response. It was a big improvement for the usual muddiness that comes from a 35 series Martin. However, were talking about 2 different guitars here, & a different nut substance. The HD-35 also has lighter 1/4" scalloped bracing.

I'm sure as time goes on you will notice more of a change. Were you upgrading from a Corian nut? I think bone has to be a much better choice. What's your saddle material? I personally don't like any synthetic materials on my acoustics...I'm glad Martin also did away w/ those Micarta saddles as well. Bone nuts & saddles are supplied on their 'standard line' guitars now...

RB

[bluesjuke]

Upgraded from a Corian nut.
The saddle appears to be bone already.

I see on the Martin site the specs for this model are now bone nut & saddle but weren't at the time that I got it (2002).

[Rockabilly69]

I have a brand new Eric Clapton 00028EC that I want to do the same thing to. Anybody done this to a smaller bodied martin?

Rockabilly69 (dan weldon)

[RnB]

I have a brand new Eric Clapton 00028EC that I want to do the same thing to. Anybody done this to a smaller bodied martin?

Rockabilly69 (dan weldon)

Do what to? Put in a new Bone Nut & Saddle? Your new 000-28EC comes stock w/ a bone nut & saddle already installed!

Check the stats:
http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=m&m=000-28EC

[Rockabilly69]

You know you're probably right as I got my info from both, acoustic guitar magazine and what looks to be an older spec sheet for the guitar. I
know Martin changes things alot. When I first played the guitar the strings
where hanging up slightly in the nut as I tuned it, so I thought why not just replace it with bone instead of just fixing the corian (with the gloss finish it doesn't really look like bone). I have to say though, aside from the tuning problems which are minor at best, this guitar sounds awesome. I really didn't do any research other than playing every acoustic guitar I could find within a few hundred mile radius. I bought it to replace my main working axe, which is
a 1998 Special Edition SP000-16TR. My old guitar has been splitting around the sound hole from the nightly abuse it receives. I have to soak that area with a little superglue every now and then to keep it in check. The guitar has over 1600 gigs (4 hours a night) on it. I wanted to retire it so I got this new Martin a few weeks ago and I'm just starting to faze it in.

Here's one of the things I read after I bought the guitar that had me assuming it was a corian nut. And I have seen quite a few people selling this guitar advertising the corian. The guitar is in the club I played last night. I've got to take a closer look at it.


A HAPPY BALANCE
Martin's new 000-28EC Eric Clapton signature model ($3,500 with case) is based on the original pre-war size, but with some important modifications initiated by Clapton. The guitar manages to strike a happy balance between collector appeal and player utility. (Clapton himself called it 'the best- sounding acoustic guitar I've ever played') In many ways, the 000-28EC appears more like a gracefully preserved antique than an off-the-shelf new instrument. The solid spruce top is richly finished in a "vintage" caramel honey lacquer, highlighted by a fine pattern of heringbone trim and "ivoroid" binding. The sides and two-piece back are made of East Indian rosewood. The unbound neck carries an ebony fingerboard adorned by simple abalone diamonds and squares, with an inlay of Clapton's signature between the 19th and 20th frets.

The hardware is simple, too. The traditional Martin open-geared tuners are surprisingly easy to operate. The nut is made of corian, a synthetic that mimics traditional ivory. The ebony bridge looks vintage, too but differs from the original pre-war design in one very practical way: older vintage Martins had a longer or "through" saddle, while newer Martins typically have a shorter saddle that drops into a routed slot. Clapton opted for the newer style, which makes the installation of under-the-saddle piezo pick-up easier. The test guitar wasn't electrified.

[RnB]

Rockabilly...

Sounds like you are the consummate gigger! I don't get out too much any more, if at all. Your old guitar sounds like it's wearing thin. The SP designed Martins are nice little boxes & were a great bargain buy. Too bad they discontinued them. I have a SPOM-16 myself. I play it everyday, as I'm being lured over to the Mahogany sound.

In 2002, I believe, Martin changed a lot of their guitars from the Micarta & Corian...to Bone, due in part, to everyones' complaints. I'm not sure what the EC model had prior to that, but it was a definite plus for all guitars w/ the old stuff. I also have a couple of the Laurence Jubers Martins, and they both came w/ bone nut & saddles, and Ivory bridge pins but I put a FWI saddle in one. They sound pretty good. I think it's all accumalative. In other words, it all adds up to what tone that guitar can produce.

Being a Clapton fan, I almost pulled the trigger on the EC model, but after playing one at Gryphon, I thought the V-neck was a little too pronounced for me, and I bailed. I think it's design is fabulous w/ all the appointments I like in an acoustic and all that. The neck shape is not at all like EC's original 000-42 though, which Martin touted & marketed as being just like Clapton's unplugged guitar. In any event, people love them, and they sell like hotcakes.

FWIW...Here's is someone's hands-on take on Eric's 000-42 that was auctioned off some time ago at Christies:

"Speaking of Clapton’s 00042, I’ve got a story that I’ll try to keep short, but I’m sure a lot of people would be interested in...

About six weeks ago I went to Christie’s in Beverly Hills when Clapton’s guitars were on display. I started talking to a guy there who, as it turned out, was the International Specialist for musical instruments at Christie’s. We were standing in front of the “Unplugged” guitar, the 00042, and I asked him if he could pick it up and show me the back of it. He said hold on, walked away and came back with a chair. Then he asked, “Do you need a pick?” I had one in my pocket so I said “No.” and sat down. He handed me the guitar and I played it pressure-free for about 25 minutes. I ran through most of the “Unplugged” album and gave the guitar a thorough examination. In fact, I was finished with it. I gave it back to him. He didn’t ask for it. I thanked him and he told me that at “Eric’s request, Christie’s was to let anyone play a guitar if they asked about it...” because he wanted them “played and not hanging in a museum somewhere.” How f-ing cool is that!?!?!

Anyway, we stood and talked for a while about how light the guitar was as well as how loud it was and I asked if I could takes some measurements. He went and got a tape measure...

First off let me tell you that the neck on the “Unplugged” guitar is THIN, THIN, THIN. Thin enough to get my thumb over the low E and A at about the 5th fret (something I couln’t do on a 00028EC). To my hand it felt more like a modified low oval that even a low profile, let alone what Martin is telling us is the “Vintage modified V.” (And having owned a 00028EC, trust me I’m very well acquainted with that neck. So I know the difference.) The neck had a roundish profile that started to form a V around the 7th, 8th and 9th frets. If Martin was to copy this neck and put it in a Vintage Series guitar, the guys on this forum woul flip out and complain that it was a modern neck, because that’s exactly what it felt like. So when you read in Boak’s book how the neck on the 00028EC and the 00042EC were modled after his “Unplugged” guitar, believe me when I teel you that it is simply not true. NOT BY A LONG SHOT.

As for the tape measure. He didn’t have a caliper( sp.?) so we did it as best we could with the tape measure. Here are the results:

Nut: 1 and 11/16. Really it was between 1 and 11/16 and 1 and 10/16.
12th Fret: 2 and 3/32
String Spacing: 2 and 5/32 or 2 and 2.5/16

So as you can see, the measurements on this guitar are much closer to modern specs than what collectors/historians - whatever - like to think of as vintage. Because, at the time, all the necks were shaped by hand, I’m sure that there are tons of 14 fret 000’s out there that are 1 3/4 at the nut with 2 5/16 string spacing. But not this one, for sure.

I love the 000 body size and I've played more than I can count and owned some too, so I have a point of reference here okay...

That said, and I know this is going to sound predictible, but it was, without a doubt, the best soundung guitar I've ever played. I mean there's a reason Eric Clapton, a man who can afford to play anything he wants, chose this guitar for his "Unplugged" album. It was really amazing - light as a feather and loud as a freight train. You hardly had to touch it to get volume from it. (And I should point out that even though I was in a fairly large room, the sound did't get eaten up and lost in the space.) As far as tone, well, it sounded exactly like the record. No kidding.

And for what it's worth, it played like melted butter. Super-low action all the way up the neck, smooth and EASY. You didn't have to fight with it at all. It felt like it gave you everything it had for only minimal effort on your part. Hats off to Lee Dickson - he must be like Yoda when it comes to set-ups!"

RB

[bluesjuke]

I see on the new online spec sheets that the new HD 28V's have a bone nut.
Mine was definately Corian & the guitar is a 2002.

They also state that the long saddle on the new ones is a drop in but I've been told that mine is a 'through' saddle.

The specs also show the new saddle being bone.
Don't know for sure if my saddle is bone but it sure looks & feels like it.

[RnB]

Yes, on the through-saddle...They decided that the glued-in through saddles were a PITA to work on, so they came out w/ the drop-in long-saddle that is easier to remove, for convenience when adjusting the string height. I don't know either, if your saddle is bone or micarta? I'll have to search around for that info. It can be changed over to long drop-in, but it's kind of a hassle.

I'm not exactly sure what year the change came about, but
here is a list of the serial #'s where the switch to bone began...

Martin serial numbers with a bone nut and saddle:

00018 - 1017801
00028 - 1015735
D18 - 1014107
D28 - 1014117
D35 - 1014309
D40 - 1014167
D41 - 1013985
D41SPEC - 1015921
D42 - 1014360
D42K - 1016124
D42K2 - 1014177
D45 - 1014362
D1228 - 1015871
HD28 - 1014131
HD35 - 1014145
J40 - 1014181
J41SPEC - 1025243
OM21 - 1016278
OM35 - 1021237
OM42 - 1015753
0018V - 1016465
00028EC - 1014184
00028VS - 1014345
D18V - 1014297
D18VS - 1017372
D45V - 1014364
HD28LSV ALWAYS BONE
HD28V - 1014138
HD28VS - 1018703
OM18V - 1014156
OM28V - 1015728
MINI - 1013968

Rich ~

[bluesjuke]

HD28V - 1014138

Yeah mine is too early for that- Ser. #841527

Thanks for that list!
Does the through saddle go through the bridge down to the spruce top instead of just a route partially through the bridge as in a drop in?

[RnB]

No, it does not do down to the spruce. It's just a slot cut throught the bridge... I'd venture to say that you have a Micarta Saddle! Do you have a pickup installed in the HD?

HD-28VR Specs, which should be the same as yours:
These are the old Specs. They held true until the change came about in 2005!

HD-28VR “VINTAGE SERIES” DREADNOUGHT GUITAR
MODEL #: HD-28VR Vintage Series Dreadnought Acoustic Guitar
BODY SIZE: Dreadnought 14-fret
SPECIAL FEATURES: Similar Appointments To Original Pre-War Herringbone D-28
TOP: Solid Spruce with Style 28 Rosette
BRACING: Forward Shifted Scalloped 5/16" X-bracing Bracing
BACK: Solid East Indian Rosewood, Two Piece
BACK INLAY STRIP: Zig-Zag Back Inlay Strip
SIDES: Solid East Indian Rosewood
NECK: Solid Genuine Mahogany With Grained Ivoroid Heel Cap
NECK SHAPE: Modified V-Shape With Adjustable Rod & Old Style Pointed Heel Cap
HEADSTOCK: Solid Squared & Tapered Headstock With Diamond
HEADPLATE: East Indian Rosewood with Old Style Decal Logo
FINGERBOARD: Genuine Ebony Inlaid With Diamonds & Squares Position Markers
BRIDGE: Genuine Ebony Belly Bridge With Long or “Through” Saddle
BODY FINISH: Polished Gloss, Aging Toner On Top
NECK FINISH: Satin
BINDING: Grained Ivoroid With Herringbone Wood Inlay
Inlaid Around Perimeter Of Top, Style 28 Back Inlay
END PIECE: Grained Ivoroid With Black/White Inlay Lines
BRIDGE & END PINS: White With Tortoise Dots
SADDLE & NUT: Corian Nut, Micarta Saddle
PICKGUARD: Tortoise Color, Beveled & Polished
# OF FRETS CLEAR: 14
# OF FRETS TOTAL: 20
TOTAL LENGTH: 40 1/2"
BODY LENGTH: 20"
BODY WIDTH: 15 5/8"
BODY DEPTH: 4 7/8"
NECK WIDTH AT NUT: 1 11/16" (2 1/8" Bridge Spacing)
SCALE LENGTH: 25.4" Long Scale
TUNING MACHINES: Gotoh Vintage Style Open Geared With Butterbean Knobs
STRINGS: M-2200 Martin Marquis Medium Gauge Phosphor Bronze Wound
OTHER OPTIONS: Left-handed At No Additional Charge
CASE: #545 Geib Style™ Deluxe 5-Ply Vintage Style Hardshell Case

[bluesjuke]

So not all the way through on the bridge route.
Why is it called a through saddle?

Those specs so look correct for mine but might be a little older as I remember the specs that were current when my guitar was made (& purchased) was SP+ Medium Guage for the strings as oppossed to the Marquis's in the specs that you posted.

Probably very close date wise though.

[Rockabilly69]

RB,

Yes I do gig alot, but I'm starting to make the in roads. Type the words "Legendary Porch Pounders" into google and you'll see what I mean.
I play as a solo act about a third of the time, as a duo most of the rest of the time, and run a electric blues jam every other Sunday. For that I use
a LP Standard, LP DC Special, Tele, and my ES-125.

Even though I'm not a huge Clapton fan (Love Bluesbreakers, Cream, Blind Faith, and some of Derek and the Dominoes). that was one of the coolest guitar stories I've heard. And extremely cool of Eric to be so gracious. Also the guy helping you out was pretty cool too. I'd probably have the same guitar wood if I got to play Chris Whitley's National guitar, and compare it to a modern National.

In my case Eric Clapton had no effect one way or another on the purchase of this guitar, if it was resonably priced, I'd have a repairman remove his sig on the neck. Nothing against Eric, I just like things simple. I literally felt that this guitar was exceptional, in that the tone compliments my voice, and the overtones have a character that I'd compare to a late 50's, early 60's, electric guitar amp "fat, clean, and musical"! The scale length seems to be easy too deal with, and easier on my hands. The neck shape really doesn't have too much of an effect on me as I play so many different guitars. As a matter of fact, it is shaped very similiar to my National Western D roundneck which I really like. I also like the featherweight body, as I haul three guitars to every gig (Martin, Bastard Resonator, Gibson ES-125). And it is such an easy transition from my other Martin. The tone really works with the material I write and play. I actually bought an Gibson AJ first, but the tone change was too extreme so I returned it, and I was back on the hunt. The Gibson was a fine guitar though.

When I get it back home I'm going to check my serial number, to see if mine is a bone equipped model. Who knows, maybe I got an older one. I don't think so though cause the wood smells so fresh.

Rockabily69 (Dan Weldon)

[bluesjuke]

By the way I have installed a K&K Pure Western pickup in the guitar a little over a year ago & it was the right way to go.

I am very pleased with it & highly recommend it.

[RnB]

OK Guys, pardon my ignorance...I was getting the 2 of you mixed up, and runnin you together as one. I just clued myself onto it! Duh :## Must be my Dyslexia actin' up.

It appears your HD is a 2001 Model from the number you gave me. In any event, they're great sounding guitars.
http://www.martinguitar.com/history/dating.html.

Bluesjuke wrote:
"So not all the way through on the bridge route.
Why is it called a through saddle?"

It is a through-saddle because the saddle slot cuts all the way across the top of the bridge and continues slightly in to the wings of the bridge (Vintage Style), like your HD-28V, then glued in. The newer 'drop-in through-saddle' doesn't need glue. Whereas, the modern drop-in saddle is only cut for the slot that 'does not' continue onto the wings. It is only cut so deep, as to hold the saddle firmly in place. It's not glued. Which is better, is debatable. The drop-in saddle also makes it possible to install an undersaddle transducer (UST) for a pickup, if one chooses. I don't like them. You can't install a UST w/ a Vintage Saddle. My preferences are for the K&K also. The 'Golden Era' series Martins and the new D-18 Authentic come w/ vintage glued-in 'fossil ivory' saddles.

Rockabilly...

Yup, I love the older EC stuff too. The 'Unplugged' EC was a trendsetter as well. I used to go see him all the time way back then, when he came around. I think being at Winterland the night they recorded 'Crossroads', etched something into my brain, that's still w/ me today.

Quote:
"Nothing against Eric, I just like things simple."

Me too, I don't care for the signatures that they put on all the artists guitars these days. The Jubers I have, are sans signatures and w/o dots on the board. Not that I'm a stellar player, that I'm not, I just like the simplicity...The new Elliot Easton Martin appears to be a well thought-out design, w/ no frills. It looks like it would a superb sounding guitar.

Rich

[RnB]

Here are the 3 different types of bridges/saddles we're talking about here:

Vintage saddle-through (glued in):
Notice how the slot extends out in to the wings a bit
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Rnbguitars/Martinthroughsaddle.jpg

Vintage drop-in saddle (no glue):
The way you can tell that it is this kind is, at the very ends, it is 'very' slightly rounded, as opposed to being cut straight, like the pic above.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Rnbguitars/MartinDrop-inlongsaddle.jpg

Modern drop-in saddle:
The slot does not extend out onto the wings
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Rnbguitars/MartinDrop-inSaddle.jpg

I hope this helps...
Rich

[bluesjuke]

.

It appears your HD is a 2001 Model from the number you gave me.
Bluesjuke wrote:
Rich


That looks right to me- 2001.
Bought it in early '02.
Checked recently to remember but guess I didn't remember what I found out.

So the 'through' saddle is just another name for the long saddle- thanks!

I'm with you guys in that I don't like fancy either.
I even prefer plaintops on my Les Pauls & 335's.
I don't care for other's names on my guitars either.

[RnB]

So the 'through' saddle is just another name for the long saddle- thanks!


Why didn't I think of that? :mad:

Have a great weekend & 4th of July...
RB