Action / String height on your acoustic(s)

[sliding-tom]

Hello everybody! I already mentioned this answering to a post by bluesjuke discussing his Martin D 28 Vintage RI:
I have a beautiful Gibson AJ RI and although it's not hard to play and I'm not really uncomfortable with the action I believe it could be a little better. The string height at the 12th fret is 4/32 on the bass side and 7/64 on the treble. Has anybody filed down the saddle themselves and if so what to watch out for to not mess up? What would be a good setup in your opinion?
Here's a site with a good description of what to do:

saddle adjustment (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/LowerAction/loweraction01.html)

[sliding-tom]

Anybody for a lil' tech talk?

[sinner]

No tech talk but I kind of like high action better. My Martin is very low and I need to change it. The Gibson is maybe a little too high, but that's better than too low for me, and it is great for both fingerpicking and slide. I can't do slide on the Martin.

You're lucky you can raise or low your saddle Tom, with a new guitar there isn't a problem needing a neck re-set to achieve that lower action.

[csason]

hey Tom..I use my D-28 with standard 10 or 11 (I try to stay away from the 11's) and you know I slide on it..

I have never measured my action..but this is interesting, nonetheless. I guess I have always figured the standard setup
with 10's or mediums (11's) was a good 'training' height, in that,
if I was touching the neck with the slide, I needed to work on my technique.
But dont listen to me, I have been playing Statesboro blues in
standard (a44) tuning for years...Ha, guess I learned it that way
before i found out DA used open E.

hmm....think I'll go measure my Martin

[sliding-tom]

Did the same (play Statesboro and other slide tunes) in standard tuning. I only had one guitar and I was very bad regarding proper tuning let alone going back and forth. :blp
AFAIK Duane also started playing in standard and I can hear it in the way he connects the notes (those long slides from one note to the other). I still like to play slide in standard - makes you think and play different, I even try to apply that approach to open tuning slide.
I believe that an acoustic needs a bigger string to drive the top properly and get the best tone out of it. I'm using Gibson 12s right now (got'em cheap on ebay) and 16s on the National, but that's tuned to either G or D open.

[csason]

I want a National..bad. yeah I can't run anything past 10 on my D-28..I can tell it doesn't like it...

I am trying to burn up a bunch of 9s I have now...ugh.

Somebody called a 'daughter' was sweet for Christmas...
I need to just can them...I can't stand them, on anything.
And even the steadiest hand , in the mix, the 9's just dont have enough body...

[gakees]

I play a lot of slide, both acoustic and electric. I use 10's on the Taylor and 11's on the LP's. I'd guess my action is low/medium, if there is such an animal, on all of my guitars. And, I play Statesboro in standard tuning as well.

[Plankspanker]

If you're thinking about getting a National you might start getting use to thicker gauge strings. They need more string mass to get the metal cone(s) and body vibrating, otherwise light gauge strings on one will sound like rubber bands on a cigar box.
I've got a few of them, both Style 0s and Tricones, you can get away with .013s if you're into fingerpickin along with slide.
There are a few strings made specifically for National Resophonics out there that are thicker gauge but easy on the fingers; I think Michael Messner designed and sells them. He's over in the UK.

[csason]

If you're thinking about getting a National you might start getting use to thicker gauge strings. They need more string mass to get the metal cone(s) and body vibrating, otherwise light gauge strings on one will sound like rubber bands on a cigar box.
I've got a few of them, both Style 0s and Tricones, you can get away with .013s if you're into fingerpickin along with slide.
There are a few strings made specifically for National Resophonics out there that are thicker gauge but easy on the fingers; I think Michael Messner designed and sells them. He's over in the UK.

man you just don't know it...(I'm ok with 11's and up..grew up
way before Slinkys and that..) but when i was six or seven, I wanted to play SOOOO bad..(this is a true story) I MADE a guitar out of a cigar box, a yardstick, and rubber bands..!!!!
sounded like crap, I'm sure..but to me, it sounded wonderful.

I remember sitting on my Grandma's doorstep and trying different ways to put that badboy together..

that is so funny... I also tried to write words on some cardboard thing, I had cut into a circle, and PLAY IT ON MY SISTERS RECORD PLAYER..HAW HAW...'cut a record'

[sliding-tom]

I'm using Michael Messer's strings (made by Newtone in U.K.) on my National Tricone, there are two different sets - for high tuning (E and A) and low (D and G). When I saw Bob Brozman recently I noticed he's using John Pearse strings.

[Freekflag]

The action on my J-45 is a little high as well. My guitar guy told me not to adjust or change anything 'til I've played it for awhile.
From what I've read, Gibson luthiers typically leave the action a little high right out of the factory. There is some room for the saddle to come down.

[sliding-tom]

Thanks, Freekflag, as I' m playing my AJ RI more regularly, I feel more comfortable - it's just that lesser guitars ( Ibanez Martin clone e.g.) have a better action and I'm thinkin' that the Gibson could do better.

[Freekflag]

I think gibson sets up their acoustic guitars to suit all players. Someone said earlier, it's better to have it a little high than too low.
I've been playing the same Ibanez knock-off for almost 25 years. When I got the Gibson, it took some time to get use to it.
Make no mistake it is a way better quality guitar from top to bottom. The guy that sold it to me said- play it for awhile and if I still want to lower the action, he would do it no problem but never do anything right away.

[sliding-tom]

Oh, it's a WAAAAAY better quality guitar than an Ibanez or whatever - no doubt about it! And as I've said: I get more accustomed to it (action) the more I'm getting back into playing acoustic. And I still remember when I found it s/h (read: pre-owned) in a guitar shop and picked it up again and again during repeated visits that I never got the feeling that I have to work hard to play it.
Just curious about other players' setups - I do all setup / minor repairs on my electrics but don't have much experience doing stuff on acoustics. If I would've been sure that this the factory set-up - O.K. but mine has a Highlander transducer under the bridge which I think has been installed afterwards so I was thinking that maybe whoever put it there didn't compensate the bridge insert for it.

[bluespckr]

Let's see if I can bring this thread back to life, seeing as it's been a few months since the last post.

I, too, don't mind messing with my own setups on an electric, but don't have a lot of experieince doing it on an acoustic. Fpr $50, I'd rather have a luthier I know and trust do it.

I thought I had a nut slot issue on my fairly new (6 months old) Martin DC-16GTE Premium. I called Martin and was referred to this guy, who is an authorized service tech. Basically, the neck needed some tweaking and the action was way high --- when he was done, the sound I thought was related to a nut issue was gone, and the guitar now plays like butter.

What I was told (and this guy is authorized to do warranty service on Martins, Taylors, Gibsons, and a lswe of others) is that Martins generally come from the factory set with a higher action. Taylors are not, and the saying goes that Taylors are acoustics designed for electric guitarists, and Martins are not.

Anyway, he did shave down the saddle a bit and tweaked the neck. restrung it and checked it. It plays great, now.

As for strings, I prefer something like D'Addario extra light EJ15 set (.010-.047), although I think even the next size up would sound great. If I get too big, it bothers my fretting hand and wrist (cramping). These also are close to the gauge I play on my electrics, so they feel about the same under my fingers.

[sliding-tom]

Thanks for your input. I'm still not sure about if my Gibson AJ RI needs a lower action. It sure doesn't feel stiff or hard to play, even if you consider the long scale length, it's just the thought that it might even play better with just a tad lower action. There's no luthiers or trustworthy repair guys in my part of the country (Germany - I know you spent quite some time over here, bluespckr.). BTW - I have noticed that quite a few folks here string their acoustics with very light strings - I always thought that you need at least a set of .012s to get a decent tone out of a good acoustic guitar.

[bluespckr]

Thanks for your input. I'm still not sure about if my Gibson AJ RI needs a lower action. It sure doesn't feel stiff or hard to play, even if you consider the long scale length, it's just the thought that it might even play better with just a tad lower action. There's no luthiers or trustworthy repair guys in my part of the country (Germany - I know you spent quite some time over here, bluespckr.). BTW - I have noticed that quite a few folks here string their acoustics with very light strings - I always thought that you need at least a set of .012s to get a decent tone out of a good acoustic guitar.


The type of string can make a difference, as far as tone, almost as much as gauge. I am actually going to bump it up a notch on the Martin to an 11-50-something set, but stay with a phosphor bronze set for balance. Maybe one of the SP sets that Martin makes.

I once tried a white bronze set by another maker and they stayed on for 10 minutes. Way too bright and brittle. I also hate the poly coated strings for the same reason.

My problem is when I get to 12's, it starts to bother my cranky old wrist and hand. And 13's are out.

As far as action (re: having the bridge saddle shaved down a bit), it really doesn't take much to make a noticeable difference. And it should be done in conjuction to any neck adjustments that might be needed, so everything is in balance.

Yeah, I spent four years in what was then "West" Berlin a long, long time ago (1969-1973) when I was in the Air Force. Loved the city, but those were "interesting" times, given the Berlin Wall and all of that Cold War nonsense.

You might want to see (through Gibson) who is the closest authorised service tech in Germany. Then if something gets messed up, it's on them. Just a thought. They should have to meet some kind of company standard to be Gibson-authorized.

[mmcquain]

I have my Taylor T5 set up similar to my electrics (Les Paul, CS256, Tele). I know it's not a "true" acoustic but I use it for my acoustic work. However, I'm an electric player at heart so I prefer a nice low action. My tech actually did have to take down the bridge on the T5 and do a little neck adjustment (one of the nice features of the T5 over some regular acoustics). Now it plays "like bud'ha"... my strings are a little heavier than the Les Paul, etc. so bending isn't as easy if I try to play a lead up the neck but it is great for chord work... very easy to play.

[sliding-tom]

I'm into phosphor bronze, too. Got a great deal on a carton (10 sets) of Gibson strings a lil' while back and since they're vacuum packed they will last a while. They are 12s and I can even bend the top two strings. Guess I just should play that thing more often than I actually do! LOL!